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Talk:Red Crusaders
Please read the rules. No second founding chapters on this site. 21:32, November 14, 2010 (UTC) Why can't there be any 2nd Founding Chapters here? And also i have not confirmed that the Red Crusaders are successors of the Imperial Fists. Also Rogal Dorn has a high status in the chapter, though i have not written it in the article. TardirProductions It is just the rules. We respect canon on this site, and making any fanmade chapter that is 1st or 2nd founding would inevitably contradict that canon. Same deal with the missing primarchs. Also the Black Templars were not around during the Horus Heresy. Supahbadmarine 14:24, November 26, 2010 (UTC) This is Non cannon friendly Imposter101 15:35, November 26, 2010 (UTC) This is not just NCF, it is completely unrealistic to the series. Supahbadmarine 15:46, November 26, 2010 (UTC) Okay, i will change it to 3rd founding then. And the Black Templars was around in the Horus Heresy. And the Red Crusaders are amongst the most Elite marines, having more training and stamina than most others. The Black Templars are a 2nd founding Chapter. The 2nd founding occured directly after the end of the Horus Heresy. Thus the Black Templars were not formed during the battle of Terra. At that point they were still members of the Imperial Fists. Also there is no way that a chapter would have 300 Dreadnoughts. 22:02, November 26, 2010 (UTC) They are a mighty chapter that are Dreadnought fans. They have fewer vehicles than most other chapters, though. TardirProductions Being fans has nothing to do with it. Dreadnought units are rare peices of technology. Even technologically advanced Chapters would have very many. In fact you could probably count the number of Dreadnoughts a Chapter would have on your hands. Furthermore, Dreadnoughts are life support systems reserved for only the most beloved heroes of the Chapter. In a group that are defined by being badass individuals of this caliber would be few. So it is not improbable to have that many Dreadnoughts, it is IMPOSSIBLE. Supahbadmarine 06:01, November 27, 2010 (UTC) Okay then, i change it to fifty. TardirProductions Plus choose a real primarch! Imposter101 13:24, November 27, 2010 (UTC) No, thets not gunna happen! When the article is done you will see why Odin Naust is primarch and not Rogal Dorn. TardirProductions No fan made Primarchs on this site. That iss the rule, no exceptions. Supahbadmarine 17:26, November 27, 2010 (UTC) Also. from how you have described him, Odin is not a Primarch. The Primarchs are the 20 supersoldiers created using the Emperor's genetics. In turn they provide the genetic material that allows you to modify a normal human into a Space Marine. If he was originally an Imperial Fist, then he can not be a Primarch. Also you are going to have to change your background a bit. The 2nd founding and all those following occured after the battle of Terra ended. Noone but the 1st founding Legions could have taken part in it. I know that you are proud of the Chapter you created and you may feel like me and the other users are attacking it, but I assure you I am only trying to help. If some things do not change the administrators will be forced to delete this article. Supahbadmarine 17:36, November 27, 2010 (UTC) I know that he is not a real primarch. Rogal Dorn has a high rank in this chapter, but he gave the title of Primarch of the Red Crusaders to Odin because he is very loyal and a very good tactican and more stuff too that i am to lazy to mention. Okay, tell me the mistakes so that i may correct it in way that may be acceptable but not ruining the Chapter. And also the Red Crusaders was actually something in beetween 1st and 2nd Founding, but they weren't accepted as a Chapter until the 3rd Founding, so they are counted as a 3rd Founding Chapter. Well as stated, if they are a 3rd founding Chapter(the earliest that this site allows), then they could not have participated in the Horus Heresy. They also would not recruit from Terra. This is because the Imperial Fists recruit from there and I am pretty sure Chapters don't like to share. Now as far as the fight on Terra thing goes, you can have this Chapter based on a world near Terra. Maybe they intercept a Chaos force that was headed for Terra. Tell me what you think. Also you can sign your post with the signature botton on the editing toolbar. Supahbadmarine 19:09, November 27, 2010 (UTC) By the way, here are the Rules. I suggest you read them when you get the chance. Supahbadmarine 19:14, November 27, 2010 (UTC) PS I dont think this guy is going to change the Primarch I think this will turn into "my fake Primarch rules crap" Imposter101 19:29, November 27, 2010 (UTC) Look man, Regardless how good of a back story you may have, its not allowed. I Tried it and even opened a blog to get it legalised, didn't work. Sorry man, your going to have to either change it or have it deleted. The reason its not allowed, simple. The Administrators believe that if they allowed everybody to create there 1st founding legions, everybody will do it. Which although is more than likely false, there sticking to and not letting you use them. Sorry man Either Change it or risk the admins shooting you through the head. --For Russ! For the Wolftime! 19:32, November 27, 2010 (UTC) He has already stated that Odin is not an actual Primarch. In this case it is more of a title, though that will probably have to change. I am currently trying to work with him to remove the NCF bits so he can keep his Chapter. Supahbadmarine 19:32, November 27, 2010 (UTC) I began writing this comment while you guys were writing yours. Including the comment about The Sort of "Spiritual Primarch". No worries. --For Russ! For the Wolftime! 19:37, November 27, 2010 (UTC) P.S: I Pray that Spiritual Primarchs are allowed, or my crowning achievement on the site The Sons of Lucifer are non cannon friendly. And that's going to be annoying. Terra isn't their recruiting world, it's where the original(The Non-Inquisition-Accepted) Chapter was founded. And it is kinda obvious that they hunt Chaos, but that Terra Chaos Attack thingy was a good idea. And i will edit the Primarch part of the infobox to Odin Naust and Rogal Dorn, even though Rogal have given that title to Odin. And it is counted as a 3rd Founding Chapter, even though it is older but it was kinda rogue in the Horus Heresy. Also i can't really see how i have broken the rules, i have explained why Odin has the primarch role and not Rogal. I might have a couple storyline fails, but i swear, i read stuff on the W40K wikia every day. TardirProductions Now i have changed it from Black Templars to a Blood Angels company. Now it is at least a little bit more Canon Friendly. TardirProductions Mate what you've explained is brilliant, Makes the Article cannon. you've jut to to word it better on the article. For example: "Their Primarch is Odin Naust and their Chapter Master is Tarkor Evangelus." That says thats that there true primarch. Try changing it to this: "While there Primarch is Rogal Dorn, they pay homage to Odin Naust as there spiritual Primarch for his heroic deeds. There Chapter Master is Tarkor Evangelus." Also do you want me to help you with your article? --For Russ! For the Wolftime! 19:54, November 27, 2010 (UTC) I would be grateful for some advice. Also i reccomend that you guys check my other Chapter, the Reptiles, for Non Canon Friendly stuff. I believe this no longer is NCF Imposter101 20:22, November 27, 2010 (UTC) Well that's good TardirProductions 20:31, November 27, 2010 (UTC) Plus you should remove founding section Hours Hercy That is not rulebreak. The Accepted Chapter was made in the third Founding, and because of this it is counted as a 3rd Founding Chapter. TardirProductions 22:04, November 27, 2010 (UTC) I don't see how they could have been an unofficial Chapter, and Primarch is not a title. 04:38, November 28, 2010 (UTC) During the Horus Heresy they formed a chapter that wasn't accepted by the Inquisition, and therefore seen as a rogue chapter. TardirProductions 11:30, November 28, 2010 (UTC) The Inquisition was not formed till the end of the Horus Heresy. Also, back then and until current times the imperium has a very low tolerance for rogues. by the way their Chaptewr Master cannot be friends with Sanguinas. He died during the Horus Heresy and that ended over ten thousand years from the present. Supahbadmarine 14:23, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Well, you now said that the Imperium had low tolerance for rogues, not no tolerance, and anyways, they did follow the Codex Astartes and didn't do any damage to the Imperium. And the Red Crusaders was formed in the middle of the Heresy, and Evangelus is that old that he was alive some time before the Heresy, so it is possible that he was a friend of Sanguinius. And the Emperor didn't accept them as a Chapter before the end of the Heresy, and after the end, the Inquisition took the rights to accept them or brand them as Chaos followers. They couldn't brand them as Heretics cuz they follow the Codex Astartes and they haven't harmed the Imperium in any way. They could be branded as corrupted, but not as heretics. Also when i say now in the storyline, i might mean 31st millenium, or i can mean the 41st one, that depends. But in the Red Crusaders' case, i am talking about the 31st one. TardirProductions 18:08, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Alright. Just one more thing. I would feel remiss if i did not point out that the Codex Astrates was created after the end of the Heresy as well. Supahbadmarine 18:27, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Still, they did follow the Emperor's word. TardirProductions 20:28, November 28, 2010 (UTC) I have no problems with any of this, but you are going to have to convince an admin that it is alright. Supahbadmarine 20:31, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Huh, maybe i should remove it from the infobox and put it in sum stuff i intend to add to the article. TardirProductions 20:57, November 28, 2010 (UTC) I would be gratefull if you guys would give me some suggestions on the Red Crusaders storyline. TardirProductions 21:11, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Well I alrady gave you an idea about the whole Chaos warband thing. The question that you have to ask yourself is how long you want them around. It looks to me like you have not planned past the Horus Heresy. Also if you want a good storyline you should set these guys up with some worthy foes. Supahbadmarine 21:15, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Their Arch-Nemesis is an Ork Clan led by Warlord Tarbag. Their second worst enemy is the World Eaters. TardirProductions 21:18, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Okay then add an E#nemies section to your Article and add them. Make sure you explain why they are enemies. Supahbadmarine 21:23, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Okay, after i have finished the Golden Ravens infobox. TardirProductions 21:24, November 28, 2010 (UTC) Ill get to the rest of the article when i have more time... but by just reading the overview it is already NCF. A Primarch is one of the 20 genetically created super-soldiers and the emperor's sons, to even call another their "spiritual primarch" or some crap like that is blasphemy against the Ecclesiarchy who believe wholly in the God-Emperor and his fallen sons... And finally and fullstop, ive seen much argument over it in the talk section but it needs to be changed, They could not have existed during the Heresy, 3rd founding at the earliest and if it is to be a mixture of gene-seeds experimentation for that didnt occur till many foundings later. And I dont care when they were accepted as a chapter, Guilliman himself decreed that all the Legions should be split down to chapters of around a thousand so there was nothing created between first and second founding, then the second founding was the legions being split down... With just using the Overview this article could be branded NCF and will be if it is not repaired very soon... --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 02:00, April 21, 2011 (UTC) Wow.. Then we have to tell Tomj about that Lucifer can't be the Spiritual Primarch of his Chapter. But i will copy all of the chapter information on here and just delete it all, as most of the stuff you branded as NCF is basically what makes this Chapter as it is. Regards, TardirProductions 12:04, April 21, 2011 (UTC) Having a spiritual Primarch is not CF, but that does not mean that they can not honor one of their ancestors as the father of the Chapter. There are many Chapters that give particular reverence towards one of their members. Supahbadmarine 12:07, April 21, 2011 (UTC) Might be, but now i have removed all of the Article's content. Regards, TardirProductions 12:10, April 21, 2011 (UTC) agreed with that, the first chapter master can be looked at as a great spiritual leader but not as a Primarch... if Tom has an article with the same problem point me in the direction of it and ill tell him as well --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 14:35, April 21, 2011 (UTC) Actually the whole spiritual Primarch thing is not NCF. NoFury you should look up the Sons of Orar on Lexicanum. 14:41, April 21, 2011 (UTC) That is a spiritual patriarch, not Primarch... 2 different things... Also they revere Orar as their Patriarch due to not knowing of their origins. A Patriarch is purely a leader or the head of the chapter such as a chapter master would be --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 14:48, April 21, 2011 (UTC) It seems that I misread. My bad. 14:53, April 21, 2011 (UTC) Its all good, i thoroughly research anything im going to target as NCF before I bring it up so im positive no chapter has claimed a Chapter Master as a Primarch, its what is annoying me about the other guy with Solaris Federation, his inability to comprehend he is wrong when it has had no research on his part and extensive amounts on ours --[http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/User:NoFuryLikeMine'War within, War without, War unending'] 14:56, April 21, 2011 (UTC) I found a solution to the Active During Heresy "problem". What if the Red Crusaders weren't called Red Crusaders until the Third Founding? And they weren't a chapter until then either? Like, when the RC's ancestors, Naust and Evangelus were banished, they went on a "little Crusade of Redemption". How about that? Regards, TardirProductions 15:14, May 16, 2011 (UTC) Wow I thought my article got a ton of BS. But yes, glad you fixed it. You just need to fix some other stuff and call it a 3rd founding or unknown founding chapter and you will be golden. Hell my First Chapter master is regarded as their Own type of primarch. But not a Primarch just an Astrates that was incredibely powerful. (Being a Pysker works) Have fun with the lore. Like the name. StormWarriors2 03:24, October 13, 2011 (UTC) Question do you have a relations with other chapters? Because you should add the Storm Crusaders as they are both similar in philisophy of thinking Feth the Codex Astrates. I would love my chapter to see some ttime with other crusader chapters. StormWarriors2 03:06, January 6, 2012 (UTC) he he he, reminds me of the Argument I had when i made the Ork Marines :) Orkmarine 23:39, June 11, 2012 (UTC)